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When I started my first website a decade and a half ago my mission was to offer women who were in a relationship with a Sex Addict the information and resources that I did not have when I made my Discovery. Information that would have helped me decide if I should stay or leave my sex addict.
I made decisions (mostly bad ones) without facts or reality, decisions that would have been very different if I had been allowed all of the information I deserved and had a right to know.
As time went by and the staggered disclosures, and my trauma continued along with the misguided advice from tens of thousands of dollars worth of professional counseling, I swore that I would do everything in my power to give as much and as many facts and resources that I could find to women who found their lives shattered by Sex Addiction. Facts and resources that would help them make informed decisions about their future.
It turned out to be many years for me, struggling with concepts that had no name, dealing with continued staggered disclosures, being fed hope after blind hope by counselors who did not understand what Sex Addiction was, in fact most had never even heard the term.
I remember my first encounter with a therapist over Larry’s behaviors. This happened before we were married. For a second time I discovered his online chats with numerous women. Sexual discussions, suggestions to meet and arrogant bragging about his ‘abilities’. We were living together at the time and I told him to leave and I moved on with my life.
He started seeing a MD psychologist. He contacted me, told me of his new understanding of his ‘problem’ and asked me to come with him for a joint session to see the psychologist. It was here that I first mentioned that I thought Larry had some sort of ‘addiction’. I had never heard the term Sex Addiction, but it only seemed logical that if someone was doing something harmful to a relationship that they swore they wanted, and yet could not stop, that it must be some sort of uncontrollable compulsion or addiction.
Well, that idea was poo-pooed right out the door. The psychologist had all sorts of reasons for Larry’s behavior, and convinced me that Larry just adored me; had just gone through a ‘bad phase’ and that we should resume our relationship. Larry’s adamant pleading and promises of never ‘doing it again’ swayed me into compliance. Several months later, during a second trip with Larry to the psychologist’s office, I was told that Larry had worked through his issues and was ‘just fine’. This psychologist told me that I could not ask for someone who was more devoted to me than Larry and that I should ‘put all this behind you and marry this man’.
The rest is history.
I eventually realized that Larry lied to the psychologist and was seeing prostitutes during the entire period of counseling and throughout our engagement and after our marriage.
How much different would my life have been if I had all the facts?
How much different would my life have been if I had the option of a full disclosure with a polygraph?
What would my life look like today if I had been allowed to make an informed decision about the rest of my life instead of being dismissed and deceived? What would my choices have been then?
My choices would have been very different.
That’s why I started my websites. The first one, almost 15 years ago, languished and was finally retired after a year of loneliness on the web. Thirteen years ago I started the Married To A Sex Addict site and now the Sisterhood of Support site, with the private forums, eBooks and Wellness Coaching has been online for almost eight years.
So, what do we need in order to make an informed decision about our lives and our future? I think it varies from woman to woman, but I also believe that we have certain rights that have been, and still are, ignored and violated when it comes to hiding information from us. Not simply personal rights, but legal rights.
A legal contract is not binding unless the parties signing it are doing so with ‘informed consent’. That means exactly what it sounds like. Without all the information we cannot make an informed (or legal) decision and if we do enter into a contract, written or implied, that decision is null and void.
I think we need to know all the ‘facts’ first. Some women may choose to not hear or know all the sordid facts. They may not want all of that information and that is their choice. But these women must understand that they will always live under that fog of denial, never quite seeing the relationship clearly and never knowing what may be lurking beneath their veil of false security.
The facts, using my journalism background, are the What (what behaviors did he engage in?), Where (where did these things happen?), When (when did they happen–yesterday, last year?) and Who (someone you know, a family member, a minor?). You may or may not want to the the How.
Forget the ‘Why’. Asking why is futile, and, when you think about it, it really doesn’t matter why.
Seriously, can you think of any reason, any reason at all, that would justify this type of manipulation, abuse, hurt, trauma, betrayal and deception?
I can’t.
It seems as if we only start to make excuses for it when we start to doubt ourselves. When we start to listen to the counselors and therapists who tell us to give it a year. When we start reading all of those books that minimize, rationalize and paint glowing pictures of recovery.
What really matters is that it did happen and it did impact us and we can only make decisions about what we want to do if we have all the facts.
Understanding the behaviors and why they occur will help to distract us for a while, and it may be important to some to understand why someone we thought was trustworthy and deserving of our love and our lives, was someone much so different.
But, understanding why, or thinking that we understand why, does not change the what, where, when and who.
Only when we know all the facts can we make solid, informed decisions. It may take us months, or even years to make those decisions, and we may change our minds once or several times, but we will be coming from a point of truth and our decisions will have stability and soundness. We will know that we made our decisions based on reality rather than building our future on the slippery slope of fantasy and fiction.
And, we may decide, after having all the facts in front of us, that we want to stay. There certainly are compelling reasons for many women to stay. And, if they have made an informed choice, and have all of the facts–the real facts–not fantasy, then they will be at peace with their decision.
In that case there should be no expectations about who their husband can or cannot morph into, or that he will never lie or betray you again. There should be no expectations that he will ever be the man you thought he was or could or should be and there can be no expectations that your life will not blow up into physical, emotional and financial chaos at anytime.
The real fact is, he is who he is.
He is not who you desperately want him to be. He is not who you thought he was. And, he is not who you have been told he will magically transform into after a few weeks or months of intensives, counseling, 12 steps or after reaching that amorphous ‘rock bottom’ .
He is who he is. Nothing more. Nothing less.
If you stay with expectations of anything else you will be disappointed. I guarantee it.
If you have all the facts and can live with reality, you will not be blindsided when you see that his spots have not changed. Yes, some men may be able to stop jerking off obsessively to porn or spending the family’s retirement savings or the kids college funds on hookers. But, most cannot or will not. Either way the underlying reasons for the behavior will always be there.
If you can live with that, then all is well. ~ JoAnn
Here are a few of my posts that might interest you:
Is There a 5% Recovery Rate for Sex Addicts?
Are Sex Addicts Really Addicts?
I believe that it’s an abusive disorder..much like physical or emotional abuse. I’m personally sick of hearing about his “disease. “
JoAnn,
You have done women with these husbands a justice by having someone going through the same hell to talk to. You are so right. There is no cure for this unless they agree to medication that stops arousal. The side affects of this disorder for them is absolute euphoria. The side affects for us is betrayal trauma and in some cases suicide. The more you find out, the sneakier and more secretive they become. All of this emotional cheating happens in their head. Even though you think you are in control, they have a secret life in their head where they fantasies about every women they see. ( At work, tv, magazines, friends and randoms in the street ) Their having sex with you, thinking about them. The only way to stop it is to take the drugs that work. I personally have no problem with this as I feel that if I can’t have sex with my husband thinking of me, he won’t be having sex thinking of someone else. For those that are optimistic, I wish them luck. Ultimately, in my opinion, unless you are prepared to agree to live with neither of you having a sex life, it will only end badly for you. No one can tell you to leave. You will take yourself to hell and back before you have finally had enough. Every one is different and will tolerate it until they are ready.
Hi. Married 38 years. The traumatic disclosures started in 2003 and dribbled on for 13 years. I was in and out of denial and ptsd. Then another big disclosure with his/her therapists. 10 months later I find he is at it again. I love him and want to care for him. He is old now, 73. A loving father and grandfather. But I know I must leave. It breaks my heart for him, the kids, me. Now I’ll be a lonely, broke old woman at 63.
I appreciate reading everyone’s stories…
I’m not married, but I’m in a relationship with a sex addict/liar/manipulator. For some reason or another I can’t wrap it around my head to leave, I think the deep sense of loneliness keeps me, crumbs are still more than nothing.
I found texts and calls to hookers in his phone after only dating for 3 months, he lied and said his brother used his phone. Swore on his mom, on God, and his dead Grandma. He was very calm and didn’t get mad that I looked at his phone. A week after that his ex girlfriend that he was apparently dating while talking to me on a dating website but left her for me (against my knowledge) messaged me on social media to inform me of how terrible he is. He himself told me that he wasn’t a greAt guy but my codependent self wanted to prove to him that he’s a good guy and lovable. After the ex hit me up a week after seeing the texts to hookers that he denied was him I put a tracker on his phone and Within a week found more stuff. I found out had threesomes with his twin brother and his sister-in-law (found videos later on). I’m 33, he’s 31, I found out he’s into a variety of things including wife’s in their 60’s. I found a video of a naked woman on his phone and thought it was a joke because she was so much older but found out it was someone’s wife he was trying to arrange a meet with. This morning his phone buzzed and a guy texted him and sent naked pictures and said they basically had phone sex. Of course when confronted he denies. This is a lot, I feel disgusted with sex all together (which makes me made because I enjoy it when it’s healthy and out of love but all this makes it seem like something “dirty”) I feel like I’m so dumb for not loving myself more and to not just leave right now. I deal with depression and anxiety and the way I feel in this relationship makes it hard to just see the point of living yet my loneliness is so loud it drowns me and I can’t be alone. Family and friends don’t fill that need to affection, touch, hugs and kisses. Of course with this type of person, my boyfriend, it’s up and down up and down. The up parts are the crumbs I get for the down parts. And I hate how I’m made to feel crazy, insecure, fed back anger and lies when this is an environment created by my boyfriend and me allowing myself to be in this environment. I pray for strength to leave, to let go of the hope for change because it’s steals my youth everyday. I pray to love myself more than the loneliness and more than the crumbs. I feel shattered and so stupid.
Hi JoAnn. I just stumbled on your page and oh goodness I needed this 20 years ago ! I have been blaming myself from the first date with my xh, always thinking I was not a good wife. I divorced my xh twice, thinking again that I was a failure – could not make this man I loved happy. I’ve been recently going to a counselor for an unrelated problem but after she heard my background she’s convinced that I married an addict ! He didn’t have “affairs” with any part woman, he did odd things i.e… he was going to strip clubs in Memphis TN on the nights I worked in ICU, and pregnant, I caught him by finding wads of ATM withdrawal receipts from TN at Midnight and odd hours. Now I am into this bucket of worms and begging for some support. Thank you for drawing attention to this and I need support to rebuild my self esteem. Please respond ! Thanks, Donna.
Hi Donna. Yes, I know how isolated this can make you feel, that’s why I started my websites for partners in 2005. I remember how alone I felt when I made my discovery…actually the same way you did, by finding ATM and bank receipts. The Sisterhood is all about support, that’s what we are here for. Sending you big hugs. ~ JoAnn
I’m reading through all these stories, far removed from my own—though I have never stopped trying to understand what happened, how I missed the red flags, and how I can help others see them. Reading these accounts brings back the exhaustion of being married to a sex addict (or in my case, a personality disorder where sex addiction was one of the manifestations).
But I want to offer hope—because I remember a time when I had none. No, my husband never recovered—and I thought for so many years that he would. But once I walked out of his darkness and lies that were shrouding my life—and into the light, I changed and my life changed. I wasn’t confused anymore. Joy and peace returned to our home almost instantaneously. Everything was clear. The mind games ended. My thoughts were no longer consumed with suspicions, fear and doubt. My confidence returned, and a new dream formed.
My (ex) husband was an avid visitor of prostitutes, constant porn (skipping work to go to hotels), strip clubs, massage parlors, excessive spending, lies upon lies upon lies—all of it. We were in counseling, together and separately. They should have named a building after us we spent so much money on therapy. He did intensive workshops out of town, and supposedly went to SA and AA, had a sponsor, went to another support group for men. I was in a support group of wives for 2 years. But money kept disappearing, and the lies just wouldn’t stop. And I had to come to the point, where I was slapped in the face with it. I had done everything I possibly could, and it would never be enough.
This was not the life God intended for me. And while I did not want my kids to grow up in a broken home- I’ve never been more certain about anything in my life. I am free. I knew there was a purpose for my life, and it did not involve wondering whether my husband had slept with another woman that day, or had been watching pornography in a seedy hotel room when he should have been at work. This was not a disease, these were choices.
There were times when it was so scary—standing on my own with two little ones when my tendency has always been to lean on someone else. But standing alone, will make you iron where you once were glass. We were meant to be cherished. To be loved and valued. Not marginalized, manipulated, diminished and abused. That’s not marriage.
I am in such agreement with what this site stands for and believes about sexual addiction. I wish it had been around on my D-day in 2008. We can spin our wheels trying to make a broken car move—but it will wear you out, until there is nothing left. You have the opportunity to come out of this stronger and better. You have to take hold of it a believe there is a better life for you ahead. Your years of support, and trying, and working hard to keep the marriage together are not wasted years. They are making you stronger than you have ever been. And no matter how old you are—your life is not over. There is good around the corner. You just have to walk out of the dark.
Natalie. Such insight! Thank you so much for taking the time to offer your wisdom to partners. I am sorry that you had to go through all the pain and trauma; but it obviously has made you wiser and stronger. ~ JoAnn
So you’re saying they’re not addicted to sex, and it’s hard to diagnose them with a personality disorder? So what do we do with them? …. there is research that shows that chemicals do get released when a sex addict engages in the sexual behavior. People don’t get withdrawal from gambling addictions, are you saying that gambling is also not an addiction? Also withdrawal may not be physical but it can be mental. In any case, even if it is a personality disorder, they can still get help for it and live happy and fulfilling lives without compulsive sexual behavior. I am not sure what the purpose of your website is, but it seems to put a stigma on these men who are where they are with no fault of their own. Is it their fault that they had traumatic childhoods? No. Is it their responsibility to get help? Yes. Is it a women’s responsibility to stay with these men? No. Is it okay to discourage people to not stay with these men and claim that research shows they wont get better? No. Again just because you and the 1000 of women you have met have found that your partners continued to act out and lied to you doesn’t mean that there aren’t another 1000 women out there whose husbands did stop acting out and got help. Personal experience should not be used to spread false information. Also don’t you think the thousands of women you’ve spoken to who have validated your personal experience have been attracted to coming to you based on shared experiences? And the women whose husbands have gotten better are less inclined to come to you because there is no need?
I appreciate your input. ~ JoAnn
Can you link me to some of your scientific facts and research?
Research on personality disorders is easy to find online. Just search for ‘scholarly papers personality disorders’.
There is no credible research on Sex Addiction because it is not a legitimate medical diagnosis. It is simply a mix of traits common to various personality disorders. It cannot be classified as a true addiction as there is no chemical dependency, hence no physical withdrawal.
Because personality traits fall on a spectrum and the diagnosis of a personality disorder is somewhat murky because the traits overlap, it’s difficult even for a professional to determine the severity of a personality disorder. Many of these people we call Sex Addicts have traumatic childhoods and disordered family members. Some research points to a mix of both genetic and environmental factors as causative. ~ JoAnn
JoAnn I understand what you are saying, but at the same time is it right to generalize? What if the wives/gfs of men in true recovery come across your website and are discouraged by your posts. After all people are different and some men do change their ways. I understand from your experience and women you have talked to, the men have lied over and over with no true intention to recover. I am sorry for that. But there are men out there who do change and choose to do the right thing. But from what I read on your website, you don’t even acknowledge sex addiction, and call it a personality disorder. Same could be said for alcoholism. Most alcoholics have other underlying issues. No mentally healthy individual chooses to drink themselves to death. Same goes for sex addiction. Yes these men are disturbed in some ways, but doesn’t mean we should throw them in the trash. It is not up to us to fix them, but we must at least believe that they have the ability to change. After all if one of these men were your son wouldn’t you want to believe that there is hope for them?
My mission is not to discourage anyone, but to present scientific facts and probable outcomes.
As I said, I support any woman who chooses to stay or who holds hope for her relationship and chooses to stay and try to work things out.
The facts are, there is no fundamental or scientific basis for anyone to:
1. Compare obsessive, compulsive and destructive behaviors to chemical addictions.
2. To continue to stay in an unsafe relationship that, over time, is showing no signs of changing.
I only present facts.
I offer support for women who are struggling with relationship issues.
I will never offer false hope or advice that would put any woman in danger. ~ JoAnn
JoAnne I think you are using your one bad experience to discourage women to stay and be hopeful. I go to s-anon meetings and there are plenty of women with success stories. Sure these men are highly disturbed, but a lot of them never seek treatment for what they have. If we don’t give them the opportunity to seek help and try to get better how will we know whether they will or not? Are they so damaged that there is no hope for them? Can’t people change? And isn’t everything on a spectrum and not so black and white? Just because one man decides to continue his addiction doesn’t mean another wont be committed to his recovery and becoming a better person. Right?
Hi Hope,
Thanks for taking the time to comment. My thoughts and opinions on the behaviors that are commonly called sex addiction are based on my own experiences as well as the experiences of the tens of thousands of women who have shared their stories on my websites over the last 15 plus years. I have no problem with women staying and trying to work through the issues. Most of the women on my sites have done everything they could to make their marriage work, myself included–I stayed and did absolutely everything in the way of effort and support for 9 years. I think that is more than enough effort. I see no sense in giving false hope to women when the man gives only lip service to his recovery. When he continues to lie, when ‘slips’ are to be expected and when the woman is encouraged to make all the efforts and offer her trust when none has been earned and when that trust endangers her health and her emotional and financial well being. My advice always is, trust but verify and listen to what they do, not what they say. ~ JoAnn
Powerful.
Thank you.
I am so sorry JOJO, I understand how traumatizing and distressing it all is. Please take some time for yourself to destress and allow your brain to clear so you can sort it all out. It does take time, but unless you take care of yourself you will not be able to made clear decisions. If you can arrange a short term separation that might help you. Sending you courage and strength. ~ JoAnn